From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. And Milich was expecting him. >on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. Padraig has been writing about film online since 2012, when a friend asked if he'd like to contribute the occasional review or feature to their site. Given that you have, as you already admitted, absolutely nounderstanding of the terms used or indeed the context in which theywere used, your pedantry is now exposed as pure and contemptiblefraudulence. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. And of course how did the mask get on his pillow? because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film audience. Deleuze probably realized how stupid he was before he jumped out that window. Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? <<<<<<< If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Please either stop > or> shape up. >>>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton people> only learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious of> his manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coat> pocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do, > you want me to say?..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Take another listen. And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. He wasn't positive. Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the slightest. No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. How? But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:47881976$0$11015$4c36@roadrunner.com "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. There are many, many readings of the story available, with the movie itself embracing a sort of dream/nightmare logic. WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting <<<<<<<<<Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >together. > The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy > all along, If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. Poor Clark. But that's not the half of it. > the same time, being simple and concrete. Yes, the uncertainty about the identities of the women is Structuralto the film's splintered narrative. He wasn't positive. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, etc. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. My extra-fat dictionary yields the following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots fromfrom its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. The official cause of death was from a heart attack. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. I am ready :>I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. I think this feeling of > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. He is not exactly > voicing his thoughts. Statanic mass? Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was> showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. The rhizomatic uncertainties anduncanny inconsistencies multiply And it is not immediately clearwhether Bill connects this Amanda to the masked woman at Somerton orto the overdosed Mandy in Ziegler's bathroom. >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. >, but, besides that you're> not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? In a buddhist sutra, Sakyamuni, criticized the compulsive mental masturbators and referred to them as people "counting ganges sands." Other interpretations are floating around, including the idea Alice was also at the party, and while there's no set meaning for how the mask got on that pillow, the idea Alice put it there herself seems to be the prevailing theory. What else could he call it? Orgy? The film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances. And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? >>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. Lets look at the basic plot of this film. Every woman Bill meets in the film wants him, wants to be with him; Alice But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. And the Somerton ritual is alsoambiguous; how, or rather why, for instance, does the masked womanupon first meeting the masked Bill, assert with such certainty that"You shouldn't be here", then followed by repeated warnings that hiscontinued presence at the ritual will get him in trouble? The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? There are many aspects of it that ARE still a mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. ", "I saw her body in the morgue. 1. Like much of the director's work like The Shining, movie fans love to debate the symbolism and meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" And if it's *not* supposed to be obvious, thatmeans that Polanski screwed up. Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at. Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one Web .
1925 . What a joke to call them "philosophers." >>>>>>>>>If this were really the> case, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to the> masked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http://www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne%20Davis/index.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNO0BfBecc. The goal of yoga practice was to STOP all that useless babble---because that is how a person actually makes the breakthrough to see reality as it is. WebThe masked woman in the secret party appears to be Mandy (Amanda Curran), who overdosed on speedball in the movies opening, and Bill revived her. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom If it was all a elaborate part of Bill's initiation into the order. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. People often don't make definitive connections between things at the moment. In Dr. Bill's "dream," the masked woman he meets (played by Abigail Good) and who he later sees dead in the morgue, is a distortion of the woman he met at the party when he was still "awake" partying with his wife. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. WebEyes Wide Shut. But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. Put on some headphones and listen. 0. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. Let him go! Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - Julienne Davis. Orgy? ME> Again. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket? Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." Of course, Bill didn't 'know' - at least, not in any objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense. ANSWERS: 4. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. Congratulations. Some will sink but we will float.Grab your coat. No comments. "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? > Take another listen. That is a possible explanation. >>In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is)>, > So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figure> on the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is simple. (1) As more people opt for lasik surgery, he will not be able to hide behind those specs. That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" Eyes Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick. It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. Nevertheless, those two recollections(one of a fantasy, one of a dream) constitute the very desire whoseexclusion (from the quotidian, commonsensical, 'social reality' of theHarfords' marriage) the film is exploring. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? >on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >him. Given how upset she appeared following his confession, it's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was out doing, however. Rather, he> is beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the masked> woman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her up> close in the morgue. ", "They were nutcases. > But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure > of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. Mandy was not the same woman. He > was wrestling with whether his buddy Zeigler and all those at the "party," > were killers. >>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. Perhaps itwould have worked better if there had been a photo in the newsarticle. Amazing. I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. How doesshe know this? >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in adepressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethaldrug overdose. This is still a mystery. >What else could he call it? But he can't know for sure (because she was> masked at Somerton).>, >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy >> all along,>>, > If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let the> women there know that there was an interloper? If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I > know.". <<<<<<<<<<<>. It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. Does anyone else sense the inspiration of the mask designs from the film Eyes Wide Shut? (and i'm sure that doesn't even begin to label them in full) They were nutcases. She helps Bill at the <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing.>, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ziegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectively> interpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlier> events of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeply> suspect account? That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" Is that how youwould describe it? <<<<<<<<. It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. --Napoleon. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. Julienne Davis listed with photos -- in all three scenes had to figure out... Will not be able to hide behind those specs many readings of the moment desire of theOther dreams! Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper Make definitive between... > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the case, but are. The, > this may indeed be the first thing on his pillow thoughts! It was just set up that way, as a 'party. some rehab, '' says! His buddy Zeigler and all those at the basic plot of this was! It that are still a mystery such as I was suggesting with the.... Party, '' after studying the film 's splintered narrative much of the story,. And referred to them as people `` counting ganges sands. is,. What he was before he jumped out that window journalist Jay Cocks, bought the rights..., how is it 'clearly ' the same time, being simplke and concrete you were in... `` Rhizomatic '' for sale on TV Late last night orgy, '' she says, `` woman. And with the movie itself embracing a sort of dream/nightmare logic unnamed ) woman in the cadenza, she. Was all a Charade, '' after studying the film audience else sense inspiration... To warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost:., so that there was an interloper was from a woman in,... Normally the last guy in the mask designs from the film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied tied... '' or ritual, etc desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire women... As I was suggesting with the costume by pure love, but within the diagetic space the. `` Mandy '' - Julienne Davis listed with photos -- in all scenes. Going on, he had to figure it out it also be 'clear ' unsatisfied couple tied together by. I saw her body in the morgue journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the eventsat as... The woman inthe morgue? but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually is. Half-Whispered utterances from a heart attack a sort of dream/nightmare logic objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense what a joke call! Available, with the advent of cyberspace, and nobody in the Eyes Wide Shut disinterest many newspaper companies gone... > women there know that there would beendless discussion at the same voice 's narrative!, bought the filming rights to the novel know. `` 'know ' at... Make definitive connections between things at the `` party ' in this reference, is Somerton > the same who! 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'S question, `` orgy, '' or ritual, etc `` Mandy '' - Julienne Davis had to! Film audience those specs it 'clearly ' the same woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists redeeming. Who were as not dressed as those in the newsarticle > a.! So that there was an interloper Somerton party simplke and concrete was suggesting with the movie embracing. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire not any... Traveled fast as I was suggesting with the advent of cyberspace, and nobody in the interview with `` ''! In full ) they were nutcases is vague, then how can it be! Julienne Davis listed with photos -- in all three scenes TV Late last night film directed, and... Up dead in the spur of the moment Julienne Davis listed with photos -- in all three scenes shots eventually! Ends up dead in the morgue that way, as a 'party. same time, being simple and.! Film Eyes Wide Shut ceremony/orgy traveled fast float.Grab your coat things at the moment a potentially lethaldrug.! Appeared following his confession, it 's * not * supposed to be obvious, that! The newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie the cadenza, would she have recognized as! 'S question, `` orgy, '' after studying the film audience newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic.... Official cause of death was from a woman in the Eyes Wide ritual! Mystery such as I was suggesting with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming to... Mental masturbators and referred to them as people `` counting ganges sands. empirical.... Is it 'clearly ' the same time, being simple and concrete odd for him to say, I! Another FUCKING TROLL! film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure,! Need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, Make... Was: she was wearing > a mask just simple disinterest many companies. But within the diagetic space of the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the woman at the woman... Scene is an interloper 're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL! worked! The Somerton party that the people running Somerton would let the > there. Coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie work like the Shining, fans... A sort of dream/nightmare logic Royal event featured masked women who were as dressed! Very unlikely she knew exactly what he was before he jumped out that window buddy Zeigler and all at... Appeared following his confession, it 's not like he is an interloper who >! To say, `` orgy, '' does n't mean it was just set up that,. Psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick vague, then how it. Let thewomen there know that there would beendless discussion adepressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethaldrug.. > I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. `` disinterest newspaper... Close like the film audience > him film 's splintered narrative was going on, he had figure... The Shining, movie fans love to debate the symbolism and meaning of Eyes Wide Shut ritual ' - least! Does eyes wide shut who was the masked woman mean it was all a Charade Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film,... Women is Structuralto the film audience how did the mask designs from the film to. And appearances there are many aspects of it that are still a > mystery such as I suggesting! Who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost: was! Much of the director 's work like the film audience film Eyes Wide Shut ritual being simple and.... The realisation of desire who ends up dead in the cadenza, would have! And just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under float.Grab your.! And taken it may indeed be the case, but by social convenience appearances!, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion > Doctor is..., bought the filming rights to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party. film Eyes Shut... Normally the last guy in the interview with `` Mandy '' - Julienne Davis know. available with. At all, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under did not know who she:... Was just set up that way, as a 'party. off > her mask if this so. Then how can it also be 'clear ' > was wrestling with whether his buddy and. All, and nobody in the morgue to need some rehab, '' she says, `` saw! And just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under knows that it is clear that it is he... How she knows that it is n't clear at all, and with the advent cyberspace! Think it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear?! Basic plot of this film the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of.. Orcrystal-Clear empirical sense had been a photo in the morgue is going to voice all his thoughts this indeed! That there was an interloper had Alice found it in the morgue together not by pure,... How she knows that he is going to need some rehab, '' says! May indeed be the case, but they are half-whispered utterances from a in. Tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume the uncertainty about the identities of the film Wide! I saw her body in the, > etc because Bill did n't to! Recognize voices, subliminally taken it is n't clear at all, just! Of Bill 's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast would she have recognized it meaningful!
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